Persistence, Power, and the Iran Deal (with Wendy Sherman) | The Art of Diplomacy

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In this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Joshua Yaffa speaks with Wendy Sherman, former US Deputy Secretary of State and the lead American negotiator of the Iran nuclear agreement. Drawing on decades of experience, from negotiations with North Korea to the marathon talks that produced the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), Sherman offers a candid look at what diplomacy requires when trust is in short supply and the stakes are exceptionally high. She reflects on the importance of preparation, the role of back-channel diplomacy, and why understanding an adversary’s interests, history, and political constraints matters more than liking them—or even trusting them. Sherman also shares behind-the-scenes stories from the Iran negotiations, including how long diplomatic processes test not only relationships between countries, but also the resilience of the teams conducting them. Looking at today’s renewed tensions with Iran, Sherman argues that military power alone cannot resolve complex conflicts and explains why diplomacy remains indispensable, even in moments when it appears least likely to succeed. For the introduction to this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Joshua Yaffa is joined by Benedikt Franke, Vice Chairman and CEO of the Munich Security Conference. * GLOSSARY • JCPOA: Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action signed by Iran and the P5+1 in 2015, aimed to limit Iran’s nuclear program through strict monitoring while allowing limited low-enriched uranium. The US withdrew from the agreement in 2018. (https://armscontrolcenter.org/the-iran-deal-then-and-now/)) • P5+1: The five permanent UN Security Council members plus Germany; also known as the E3+3 (three European countries + China, Russia, and the US) • Red Team: Independent group that simulates an adversary to improve the effectiveness of an organization’s security measures. Their primary goal is to identify vulnerabilities before external attackers can exploit them.