Olivia Rodrigo Tried Writing Love Songs. Then Life Got Messy.

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Olivia Rodrigo sat down with Joe and Jon for her first in-depth conversation about her new album, “you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love,” out June 12. She discussed the many ways her creative process intersects with the extracurricular noise of pop superstardom, whether its managing relationship drama; being targeted for the way she dresses, accusations of pilfering songwriting gestures from Taylor Swift, her onetime idol, or her willingness to speak up about political and social causes in a way many of her peers won’t. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.